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Author Topic: What our folks worry about most...  (Read 7331 times)

vanrozenheim

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What our folks worry about most...
« on: February 27, 2007, 01:31:28 PM »

What do our folks think about when they first hear about an idea of a Gay Homeland?

No, that's not Gay Nigerians and Iraqis seeking refuge and being sent back. Better read this thread on www.democraticunderground.com and learn the worries of our people.
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Feral

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RE: What our folks worry about most...
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2007, 06:46:09 PM »

Understand that that particular forum applies its devotion to the US Democratic Party and to little else. I would not expect much useful diaolog there.
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Vizier

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RE: What our folks worry about most...
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2007, 04:34:45 PM »

So far, I have seen little useful dialog about us anywhere. And the fact that the DU, supposedly one of th more liberal wings of U.S. society, has reacted in such a disappointing and truly undemocratic, bigoted fashion just reaffirms that I did the right thing leaving the U.S. for Germany until we can get our own country up and running...  Feral, you and yours should come over. The water is warm and the welcome is wonderful.
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Feral

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Re: RE: What our folks worry about most...
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2007, 05:09:13 PM »

Quote from: "Vizier"
Feral, you and yours should come over. The water is warm and the welcome is wonderful.


I and mine are hampered by immigration laws. This is not to say that the idea of emigrating to somewhere has not come up in domestic conversation.

DU was founded, if I recollect correctly, to rally supporters of the Democratic Party. I would not expect that group to do much apart from this political goal, any more than I would expect resolutions condemning proposed Nigerian legislation to arise from the meetings of one of the local knitting or quilting circles. They are welcome to their focus.

Certainly the aims of Gay Nationalism are not entirely in sync with the aims of the US Democratic Party. This should come as a surprise to no one.
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Kyleovision

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RE: Re: RE: What our folks worry about most...
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2007, 11:27:27 PM »

Quote

Certainly the aims of Gay Nationalism are not entirely in sync with the aims of the US Democratic Party. This should come as a surprise to no one.


Quote
There is not one single candidate running for public office anywhere that deserves our support. Not one
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Feral

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RE: Re: RE: What our folks worry about most...
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2007, 01:27:26 AM »

Precisely ;)
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vanrozenheim

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Re: RE: What our folks worry about most...
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2007, 12:33:36 PM »

Quote from: "Vizier"
So far, I have seen little useful dialog about us anywhere.


This comes mostly from an entire misunderstanding of our goals. It was really scary to listen what some folks talk about, and how limited their worldview by times is. View made reasonable counter-argumentation.

Generally, when coming up with something really unconventional, one must have good arguments to make people understand. Those who actually understood our cause were supportive in principle, even if they would not waste a thought on becoming emigrants themselves. I made the experience that when having the chance to talk to people directly, it is indeed possible to open their eyes and make them see what they did not see before: We Are a People. I do not talk here about brain-washing or cheap indoctrination, I talk about endowing a person with really new insights -- a thing not very frequent in our daily lives.

Konrad Lorent said once: "One should not be such insolent as to assume that it is impossible to make others understand things which one by oneself has recognized as absolutely true." Means, even pursuing a difficult task of sharing new insights with others, one should not assume them to be dumb -- most probabbly, one is simply lacking profound arguments, so far.  :wink:

Therefore: it is our duty to find these striking arguments and bring them to our people. Even if most of our folks shall prove reluctant at first, the smarter ones shall be able to understand -- even if they will not necesserily agree with us.
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Kyleovision

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RE: Re: RE: What our folks worry about most...
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2007, 12:49:19 PM »

I think the 'we are a People' argument is the only place to start. Let's face it, unless and until we are recognizably a People (to ourselves, much less to others), the idea of a Gay Homeland can sound pretty silly. I understand the reluctance of folks (ours and theirs) to grasp it.
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"That buzzing-noise means something. You don't get a buzzing-noise like that, just buzzing and buzzing, without its meaning something."

vanrozenheim

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Re: RE: Re: RE: What our folks worry about most...
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2007, 02:24:52 PM »

Quote from: "Kyleovision"
I think the 'we are a People' argument is the only place to start.


Though it is of course entirely possible to found a state based solely on an idea and constitutional framework (San Marino, Order of Malta, Athos Monk's Republic etc), I must agree with you here in the case of the Gay people.

As long as Gays do not understand that our common well-being is largely dependent on the degree of our ability to stand by eachother, we will scrape a living by endulging straight supremacy and Gay cultural submission. We will continue to pay our taxes to teach and train our future oppressors. We will continue to live in straight ghettoes pretending that we are so much diverse that we would not like to live "in the gay ghetto". We will continue to earn our living by writing and selling heterosexual romantic literature and pretending we are so much more than only gay. We will sing heterosexual love songs and hide our husbands from public notice like anal warts and pretend we are upholding universal values and contributing to the "general culture". We will fervently uphold any other category and stereotype and put people in drawers but deny that we have anything in common with other Gays.

It is a hard living recognizing than one belongs to a subhumanly oppressed species - but it is even more a disgrace to refuse to acknowledge the unpleasant, yet obvious facts.

We are a people, and we better learn this before we get eradicated from this planet.
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Vizier

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Re: RE: Re: RE: What our folks worry about most...
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2007, 10:05:03 PM »

Quote from: "Kyleovision"
I think the 'we are a People' argument is the only place to start. Let's face it, unless and until we are recognizably a People (to ourselves, much less to others), the idea of a Gay Homeland can sound pretty silly. I understand the reluctance of folks (ours and theirs) to grasp it.


Well put. That second part is where I find the most work is needed - until we are recognizable as a people among ourselves! The bickering and infighting and less-than-serious approach most gays have to anything other than poppers, sex and when do I next get laid? is what will ultimately need the most work.

Naturally, sex is fun and dandy and I wouldn't mind having that  when do I next get laid? question answered, but I think that until we can make gay people everywhere realize that nothing will ever truly improve for us until the str8 people in this world come to realize that we are here, we are not going to "go away" or "shut up and put up" anymore, are a force to be reckoned with (even when figuring at the wildly conservative ballpark figure of only 5% of the world population being gay) and that we want what is ours, we are entitled to and we demand.
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Rain

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RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: What our folks worry about most...
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2007, 06:09:21 PM »

Personally, I've been holding conversations about this with a few people I know.  Just to guage their opinions and their attitudes.  Remarkably, there's a subconscious feeling that, yes, as gay people we are fundamentally different.  And there's even a component of not only that we are fundamentally different, but that we were MEANT to be fundamentally different.  

I believe that's the key idea.   We are different because we were meant to be different...because we were meant to be PERIOD!  And any people whose existence is preordained should seek to secure not only its present, but should also seek to guarantee its future and safeguard its past.  Heterosexual societies will never give us those guarantees.

That's when they usually ask, "Well, what do you propose?"  

Just the fact that they took it to the next level and posed that question is the start of revolutionary thinking.
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Feral

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RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: What our folks worry about most...
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2007, 07:25:49 PM »

Quote
Heterosexual societies will never give us those guarantees.


Nor should we ask them to. Really... in what way is heterosexual society even qualified to safeguard our past? They can barely acknowledge we exist at all. "What do you propose?" is a fine question. It's worthy of ten thousand different answers. I guarantee you though -- the het book on voguing will be a photo layout of Madonna, and have no connection to anything resembling the truth. The str8's abilities to safeguard the Gay past deteriorate from there. As for heterosexual society's abilities to secure our present and guarantee our future... I've seen what they have in mind.
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