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Author Topic: Acting Straight  (Read 7830 times)

Feral

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Acting Straight
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2007, 04:54:18 PM »

Who's dissin' hippies? I was well fond of the hippies in my day. They weren't the faux hippies you occasionally find nowadays, oh no. Like I said: real, live, free-range hippies. They were a little long in the tooth even then (OK... some of them were A LOT long in the tooth), but I would listen to them for hours in rapt attention. Probably I should have devoted at least a few of those hours to my studies, but then probably the university should have employed more free-range hippies. The oral history in those people was astonishing. I did not read about the Detroit riots in books, I heard about them from people who lived in the neighborhoods where they took place.

Quote from: "Kyleovision"
Much like the real, live, free-range punks of my day. (Sorry, dear, to inadvertently point out that your day and my day were, errr, somewhat separated in time. :P)


Much like :)

Has it escaped your notice that you were then (and remain now) a "trophy" husband?
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berto

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« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2007, 07:09:30 PM »

Oh please. You two make it sound like a May-December Romance, or something! :roll:
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Feral

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« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2007, 08:24:14 PM »

As Kyle would saltily point out, there were no hippies in his day (unless, he points out, you include the fat Maoists in the Political Science department).

May-December it is not, but a "trophy" he was (and is) and I thoroughly relished each droplet of jealousy and envy that our appearance together at some function would occasion. I may not have much sense when it comes to shoes, but I have fine taste in men.
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Kyleovision

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Acting Straight
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2007, 10:28:49 PM »

Quote

Oh please. You two make it sound like a May-December Romance, or something!

 
Now, listen here. I *intentionally* married in such a way so as always to be 'the young one.' Don't be upsetting my little, fantasy apple-cart!
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Feral

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« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2007, 03:59:43 AM »

That IS one of the saving graces of time. It's dreadfully and inexorably consistent that way.
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berto

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Acting Straight
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2007, 09:22:41 AM »

Verily, Ancient One. (Or should I call you "Yoda"? :wink:  :P )
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Rain

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« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2007, 11:09:50 PM »

Maybe if we used the term "straight-immitating"...
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vanrozenheim

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Acting Straight
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2007, 01:54:36 AM »

Quote from: "Rain"
Maybe if we used the term "straight-immitating"...


... we would come closer to the core of the phenomenon and a number of gay men could be healed from their desease. Call it "imitating" or "mimicry" - fake straight men are still fake.
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vanrozenheim

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Acting Straight
« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2007, 02:39:02 AM »

One more shot at the issue, this time from the South African perspective:

Out of the closet ? but strictly after nine
Quote
There was always someone who knew of men who were gay but made the choice against being openly gay so as not to jeopardise their social standing and professional standing, he says.

"I was quite surprised when I socialised with people and I would talk about this storyline, and they would say: 'I know someone like that'."

[..]

"They are gay people who choose to live heterosexual lives," explains Majatladi. "From morning till nine (pm) they are straight. After nine they come out, as it were.

"These are guys who are not confused about their sexuality; they are clear about their sexual orientation, but they choose to suppress it and choose to compromise. From sun-up they are straight, and at sundown they come out."

What kind of reaction does he expect, especially from the black community?


OK, this is a bit extreme considering the intent of this thread -- but it is certainly true that some homosexual men are acting straight so perfectly they finally become straight men -- though fake ones. Is it actually possible to be a "straight" "MSM"???
8X
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of liberty must undergo the fatigues of supporting it." Thomas Paine

berto

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Acting Straight
« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2007, 04:45:25 AM »

Quote
Out of the closet ? but strictly after nine


Then they're not really out, are they?
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Feral

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« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2007, 05:40:17 AM »

Quote
Is it actually possible to be a "straight" "MSM"???


I suppose that depends upon how marked the neurological differences between Gays and Straights are. Many people imagine that they are trivial, when they will acknowledge the research that shows these differences exist at all.

There is a neurological difference between being left-handed and being right-handed. It is certainly possible for a left-handed person to be obliged (I've never known one to choose) to behave solely in a right-handed manner. This practice very frequently has moderate to severe effects on other aspects of the person's behavior. Indeed, every speech therapist I have ever known (there have been but 7, so it's hardly a conclusive sample) would immediately recommend that a stuttering right-hander use his or her left hand exclusively as an experiment to rule out the effects of living as a "fake right-hander."

Quote
Then they're not really out, are they?


Nope... and I very strongly feel they are doing themselves real damage.
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vanrozenheim

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RE: Acting Straight
« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2007, 04:23:32 AM »

Androphilia: Rejecting the Gay Identity, Reclaiming Masculinity

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When I discovered this book, with its subtitle "Rejecting the Gay Identity," I was anxious to read it. Despite the fact that I am not at all ashamed of being homosexual, I do hold that sexuality is incidental. Who men like to fuck is tantamount to which dressings men like to pour on their Cobb salads.

Jack Malebranche, in Androphilia, is right here along with me—at least thus far. He takes it further, however, arguing that "masculine" homosexual men need not be saddled with the "stigma of effeminacy" simply because they fuck dudes. Rather than call themselves "gay," these men should identify as "androphiles" (men who appreciate masculinity). Androphilia was much more academic than I expected, and even includes a short essay arguing against same-sex marriage. Malebranche lives in Portland, so I took the opportunity to clear up a few misunderstandings.


Another "MSM"... Nothing against "masculinity" but much to say against machismo. These guys are going to tell me that all those "straight-acting" boys who are scared to shit to come out as gay are more of a man that a effeminate boy who proudly confesses belonging his people? They must be kidding.  

However, I see it with some amusement that there are actually some "androphile" folks who express the same ideas as Adolf Brand in his "Der Eigene" (mysogynie of of them).
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berto

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RE: Acting Straight
« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2007, 10:41:44 AM »

Quote
These guys are going to tell me that all those "straight-acting" boys who are scared to shit to come out as gay are more of a man that a effeminate boy who proudly confesses belonging his people? They must be kidding.


You said it. I went to school with a boy who was physically slight, who had an “artistic temperament”, who didn’t like sports, who played clarinet in the school band, who was more comfortable around the girls than other boys, who was slightly effeminate, and who was unfortunate enough to have the name “Perry”. Of course, with that singular lack of imagination or intelligence, the “cool kids” and the “jocks” and eventually pretty much everyone dubbed him “fairy Perry” and he was, over the course of his school career, bullied many times beyond counting, punched, kicked, beaten up, called names, spat at, sneered at... and this was even *before* he or any of our contemporaries had reached the age of puberty. That there was no objective “evidence” that Perry was a “fairy” was immaterial to the bullies -- they hardly needed an excuse to torment and bedevil Perry. And it certainly didn’t help that, when we *did* reach puberty, Perry seemed to remain the stereotype of “the fag”... although (still) there was no objective “proof” of his orientation one way or the other, as before, there was no need for “proof” -- Perry had long before been cast into the role of perpetual victim, and that’s just the way it was.

It is a mark of shame on that school that nothing ever seemed to be done about it by the teachers or staff, except in the most outrageous incidents. It is also a mark of shame on Perry’s fellow students that we became so accustomed to Perry being the target of the bullies that we pretty much just took it as a “given” -- that just seemed to be his lot in life. And while I include myself in that general sense of blame, I also carry a strong sense of shame over the fact that I was gay myself -- although I was completely unwilling to acknowledge that, or accept it myself at the time, being in active and fervent denial. But the thing was, while I stayed safely “hidden”, Perry never once backed down from the names, or the gawd-awful bullying. He took years and years of abuse (and neglect from the staff) but I never *once* heard him say “But I’m NOT!” He took the punches and kicks (and sneers and name-calling, which I’m sure in many ways was even more painful)... and he never once denied any of the slurs or ill-informed, ignorant name-calling.

In the intervening years, I have had much opportunity to regret my earlier cowardice, and my unwillingness to stick up for Perry, not least because I finally quit trying to be someone I wasn’t and admitted the fact that I am gay. I felt much the same as Bishop Gene Robinson did, when he described watching a classmate in his school being targeted as a “fag” and being afraid to stand up for him because Robinson was terrified that he would be targeted alongside his classmate, if he did. Robinson said that he has never lived down that sense of shame that he felt over his failure to speak up, and to act, and said that is a large part of the reason he is so adamant now about standing up for equality rights for queers now. I understood everything Robinson was saying.

But as for Perry, who knows, he might very well have been straight, but that was hardly the point. He was getting tormented as a “fag” regardless of whether he actually was a homosexual or not, yet I had been too gutless to speak up... Well, a few years ago, I set out to see if I could track Perry down; I wanted to apologize to him, at the very least. I wasn’t able to locate his parents, and was not having much luck when, after a few weeks, I found him by complete accident, on google. Or, at least, I found his name, on a segment of the Canadian AIDS quilt. And then I found a notice of a tree that had been planted in a Calgary park in his memory and his honour by his partner, Dave. I was 15-odd years too late -- he’d gotten sick in that first wave of AIDS that swept the continent in the early ‘80s, and he’d died in 1987, about age 24.

So, it turned out all those bullies were right about one thing. Perry *was* gay, after all. But they were completely wrong about all the rest. He might have been a “pansy”, a “fag” (and whatever else were the common slurs of the day), but he was *not* a “weakling”, or a “chickenshit” or a “wimp”. He was one of the toughest, strongest, bravest kids in that entire school. He was certainly tougher, stronger and braver than I ever was. Maybe, because he fit the stereotype so well, it was harder for him to “pass”, but to my knowledge he never even made the attempt. He had guts, and he had more strength and character than any of the bullies. More than any of his classmates who never tried to intercede with the bullies. More than his teachers, or the staff at his school. And certainly more than me.

There’s a lot of Perrys out there, still -- incredibly heroic, brave little fags, effeminate boys with a gentle nature who would rather be in art class or the band than the gym. Courageous flamers who won’t (or can’t) deny their own nature, while the many “masculine” homos sit tight and keep their traps shut for fear of receiving the same torment their more effeminate brothers endure on a daily basis.

I. Will. Never. Be. Silent. Again.

And I will never leave some poor kid to face that type of shit alone again. It’s too late to “do right” by Perry, or even apologize to him, but as I said, there’s lots of Perrys still out there, and this time, I know where I stand -- with the brave “fems” who won’t hide in the closet and deny themselves. They’ve got more character, more class, and *far* more bravery than any of these “straight-acting” poseurs who are so “ashamed” of the “flamers”.
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Feral

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Acting Straight
« Reply #28 on: July 06, 2007, 07:41:45 AM »

Don't Look Gay: Why American Men Are Afraid of Intimacy with Each Other

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Why do adolescent boys often leave empty seats between each other when they go to the movies? It's a product of the culture of male homophobia in America which pushes men to avoid intimacy and gay stereotypes.

On Saturday afternoon at the Cineplex you can see them: adolescent boys, there to watch one of the action films that Hollywood makes with an audience of young males in mind. What’s distinctive is where the boys sit in the theater. Though they might’ve come to the movie together and might even be close friends, they’ll leave an empty seat between them.

...

What accounts for that space? A short answer, something academics like me are notoriously reticent to provide, is that countless American boys and the men that they become are afraid of intimacy with each other, fearful of how intimacy might be construed -- of what others and maybe even they themselves might decide that the closeness suggests. What I’m alluding to, of course, is homophobia.


Mr. Ibson's article is worth a read. He could have picked a better example for his opener though. Accounting for the empty seat is quite simple -- the armrest.

They want two of them... all to themselves. I've done it myself on more than a few occasions... it's very often just a simple case of armrest territoriality.
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Kyleovision

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« Reply #29 on: July 06, 2007, 11:59:19 AM »

Tossing aside all of the tiresome Queer-Theory talk of 'sexuality as nuance,' we find this:

Quote
What I am suggesting is that some opposition to “gay marriage” is animated by tremendous discomfort with the love, tenderness, and intimacy between men that their marrying each other implies. Notions of men having furtive sex with multiple male partners with whom they are not in love or lastingly involved might be considerably less disagreeable.


Surely such behavior on our part is not 'less disagreeable' to str8 people, but there's something that *is* different about gay men actually being allowed to ratify their relationships to themselves and the State. And that difference is Power.

If we all continued to skulk about, furtively seeking nothing but sex, we would be less able to defend ourselves. Yes, there is something we may potentially get from pairing up that goes beyond doubling our wardrobes, and that's a second gun in every knife fight.

*That's* what str8 people are actually worried about, and--funny thing-- they don't even know it.
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